I'm not as tolerant of women's moral right to have an abortion as Ann Furedi--wife of Frank Furedi, one of the sp!ke-ers. Drawing upon J.S. Mill and Sartre, she thinks that an embryo is not a person until it feels the pain of birth.
The Scientific American article doesn't actually say when consciousness first arises. It just says "Thus, many of the circuit elements necessary for consciousness are in place by the third trimester." (Not clear when exactly "by the third trimester" is.)
Regarding "the circuit elements necessary for consciousness," I suspect that there is far less really known about this than the Scientific American article implies. Here's why:
“In a Science article by Roger Lewin provocatively entitled ‘Is your brain really necessary?’, John Lorber, Professor of Paediatrics at Sheffield University, reports: There’s a young student at this university … who has an IQ of 126, has gained a first-class honours degree in mathematics, and is socially completely normal. And yet the boy has virtually no brain … When we did a brain scan on him, we saw that instead of the normal 4.5 centimetre thickness of brain tissue between the ventricles and the cortical surface, there was just a thin layer of mantle measuring a millimetre or so. His cranium is filled mainly with cerebrospinal fluid … I can’t say whether [he] has a brain weighing 50 grams or 150 grams, but it’s clear that it is nowhere near the normal 1.5 kilograms…”
— The Matter With Things: Our Brains, Our Delusions and the Unmaking of the World by Iain McGilchrist
Yes. The point that this being was sentient in the past, and will be sentient again. To kill him would be murder. An embryo, before the 23rd week, nos not yet been sentient. To abort this embryo is therefore not murder. It's just getting rid of a non-sentient, undesired appendage
I'm not as tolerant of women's moral right to have an abortion as Ann Furedi--wife of Frank Furedi, one of the sp!ke-ers. Drawing upon J.S. Mill and Sartre, she thinks that an embryo is not a person until it feels the pain of birth.
Having enough neuronal connections to feel emotions and think!
How did the Scientific American study determine if a baby "had enough neuronal connections to feel emotions and think"?
Thought I posted the link already. Here it is again https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/when-does-consciousness-arise/
The Scientific American article doesn't actually say when consciousness first arises. It just says "Thus, many of the circuit elements necessary for consciousness are in place by the third trimester." (Not clear when exactly "by the third trimester" is.)
Regarding "the circuit elements necessary for consciousness," I suspect that there is far less really known about this than the Scientific American article implies. Here's why:
“In a Science article by Roger Lewin provocatively entitled ‘Is your brain really necessary?’, John Lorber, Professor of Paediatrics at Sheffield University, reports: There’s a young student at this university … who has an IQ of 126, has gained a first-class honours degree in mathematics, and is socially completely normal. And yet the boy has virtually no brain … When we did a brain scan on him, we saw that instead of the normal 4.5 centimetre thickness of brain tissue between the ventricles and the cortical surface, there was just a thin layer of mantle measuring a millimetre or so. His cranium is filled mainly with cerebrospinal fluid … I can’t say whether [he] has a brain weighing 50 grams or 150 grams, but it’s clear that it is nowhere near the normal 1.5 kilograms…”
— The Matter With Things: Our Brains, Our Delusions and the Unmaking of the World by Iain McGilchrist
https://a.co/9fRigyb
The link to the Science article is:
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.7434023 .
There;'s a Scientific American article,, September 1, 2009
When Does Consciousness Arise in Human Babies?
Does sentience appear in the womb, at birth or during early childhood?
By Christof Kochat at https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/when-does-consciousness-arise/, showing that sentience does not begin until the 23rd week: the week ending the second trimester. Murder just can't happen before then. It would be nice if the Left acknowledged this.
Nice if the Right would admit to it, too.
Is it murder in your opinion to kill a perfectly healthy adult when they are temporarily not sentient during surgery with general anesthesia?
Yes, because the word you used was "temporarily"
So are you saying that it would be murder to kill a non-sentient being (such as the patient under anesthesia) if it will be sentient in the future?
Yes. The point that this being was sentient in the past, and will be sentient again. To kill him would be murder. An embryo, before the 23rd week, nos not yet been sentient. To abort this embryo is therefore not murder. It's just getting rid of a non-sentient, undesired appendage
What was the Scientific American definition of "sentient"?