Hi John. Your faith in human nature is praiseworthy. But unrealistic. Many have good generous hearts but most are lazy and venal. That's why Murray Rothbard's free market ideas are so much more realistic. They reflect true human nature. Excesses can be cured by holding politicians to account for misfeasance which society has miserably failed to do. As for the poor and otherwise feckless, these can be looked after by charitable organisations like those in the UK in the 19th Century. They were often founded by rich people and were a huge success. Unforunately people need a carrott and stick in this world. To deny this is to live in a dreamworld as our Communist history has shown.
Very laudable indeed and no sane person would disagree. In principle. But the fact that it did not persist and there is little evidence of its widespread adoption argues that it is very much of a time and place phenomenon. I would love to live in such an environment. But we are now city dwellers and our needs are more complex. And human nature is not something to be ignored. I think we just disagree about the level of trust you can have in human commitment and character. My experience is the stick has to be much larger to motivate otherwise sloth and general malaise takes over. I would happy to be in a collective with you and yours though. All the best.
#1. Regarding your "But the fact that it did not persist": The reason that egalitarian Spain did not persist had nothing to do with any flaw in its egalitarian characteristic or problem due to 'human nature.' The reason was that the world's anti-egalitarians (Hitler, Stalin, FDR, etc.) used violence and sabotage to defeat it, AND that the anarchists made fatal mistakes that led to their defeat at the hands of the fascist general Franco, as I discuss at https://www.pdrboston.org/anarchism .
#2. Regarding your "human nature is not something to be ignored": I don't know on what you base your opinions about what 'human nature' is. Does the fact that there have been long-lasting egalitarian human societies in the past conform to your opinion about what 'human nature' is? I am referring to examples such as:
a. The city of Teotihuacan, which had its heyday eight centuries before the coming of the Mexica, and more than 1,000 years before the arrival of the Spanish. Its foundation dates to around 100 BC, and its decline to around AD 600. Please read about it at https://www.pdrboston.org/equality-in-ad-300-mexiconew-page;
b. The egalitarian society in Brazil known as Palmares, which lasted from 1597 until at least 1695, with a population as large as that of the contemporary Colony of Massachusetts, described at https://www.pdrboston.org/egalitarianism-in-brazil .
#3. Regarding your "But we are now city dwellers": So were the anarchists/egalitarians in Spain who lived in cities like Barcelona and who worked in places like textile factories, about which you can read a bit at https://www.pdrboston.org/industrial-production-egalitarian-way .
#4. Regarding your "the stick has to be much larger to motivate otherwise sloth": Much larger than what, exactly? The egalitarian stick is that if a person does NOT contribute reasonably according to ability then they do NOT have the right to take for free what they need or reasonably desire. In this case they must get by by bartering as best they can.
I'll invite you to my collective when I have one going. All the best.
Hi John. Your faith in human nature is praiseworthy. But unrealistic. Many have good generous hearts but most are lazy and venal. That's why Murray Rothbard's free market ideas are so much more realistic. They reflect true human nature. Excesses can be cured by holding politicians to account for misfeasance which society has miserably failed to do. As for the poor and otherwise feckless, these can be looked after by charitable organisations like those in the UK in the 19th Century. They were often founded by rich people and were a huge success. Unforunately people need a carrott and stick in this world. To deny this is to live in a dreamworld as our Communist history has shown.
How do you explain this? https://www.pdrboston.org/egalitarianism-outproduces-capitali
Very laudable indeed and no sane person would disagree. In principle. But the fact that it did not persist and there is little evidence of its widespread adoption argues that it is very much of a time and place phenomenon. I would love to live in such an environment. But we are now city dwellers and our needs are more complex. And human nature is not something to be ignored. I think we just disagree about the level of trust you can have in human commitment and character. My experience is the stick has to be much larger to motivate otherwise sloth and general malaise takes over. I would happy to be in a collective with you and yours though. All the best.
I would like to address your several points.
#1. Regarding your "But the fact that it did not persist": The reason that egalitarian Spain did not persist had nothing to do with any flaw in its egalitarian characteristic or problem due to 'human nature.' The reason was that the world's anti-egalitarians (Hitler, Stalin, FDR, etc.) used violence and sabotage to defeat it, AND that the anarchists made fatal mistakes that led to their defeat at the hands of the fascist general Franco, as I discuss at https://www.pdrboston.org/anarchism .
#2. Regarding your "human nature is not something to be ignored": I don't know on what you base your opinions about what 'human nature' is. Does the fact that there have been long-lasting egalitarian human societies in the past conform to your opinion about what 'human nature' is? I am referring to examples such as:
a. The city of Teotihuacan, which had its heyday eight centuries before the coming of the Mexica, and more than 1,000 years before the arrival of the Spanish. Its foundation dates to around 100 BC, and its decline to around AD 600. Please read about it at https://www.pdrboston.org/equality-in-ad-300-mexiconew-page;
b. The egalitarian society in Brazil known as Palmares, which lasted from 1597 until at least 1695, with a population as large as that of the contemporary Colony of Massachusetts, described at https://www.pdrboston.org/egalitarianism-in-brazil .
I also call your attention to this article about human nature: https://www.pdrboston.org/human-nature-the-capitalist-big-lie . I think you might find that human nature is not exactly what you seem to think it is.
#3. Regarding your "But we are now city dwellers": So were the anarchists/egalitarians in Spain who lived in cities like Barcelona and who worked in places like textile factories, about which you can read a bit at https://www.pdrboston.org/industrial-production-egalitarian-way .
#4. Regarding your "the stick has to be much larger to motivate otherwise sloth": Much larger than what, exactly? The egalitarian stick is that if a person does NOT contribute reasonably according to ability then they do NOT have the right to take for free what they need or reasonably desire. In this case they must get by by bartering as best they can.
I'll invite you to my collective when I have one going. All the best.